Suitable versus trendy
by Nameless Coward
FreeDOS, as I perceive it, is supposed to be suitable with MS-DOS 6. Is it difficult to keep up this legacy compatibility whereas additionally attempting to enhance, or modernize, FreeDOS? I see a variety of utilities are developed for the OS and I am guessing you get a variety of requests to port FreeDOS to trendy CPUs, or add superior options. So how do you determine what can go into FreeDOS and what’s saved out to keep up backward compatibility?
JH:
I’ve wished FreeDOS to be a contemporary DOS. If we simply stopped at reproducing MS-DOS 6.22 with solely these options, and no extra, then FreeDOS can be boring. I’ve at all times checked out how we will make FreeDOS a extra trendy DOS. However how a lot can you actually change?
Some time again, I did a thought experiment. The place would possibly Microsoft have taken MS-DOS in the event that they hadn’t stopped engaged on it? As an instance Microsoft determined “we’re shifting forward with Home windows, however we will preserve creating MS-DOS as a command line working system.” What would possibly Microsoft have added to MS-DOS to make it related and trendy?
My thought course of went like this:
A contemporary DOS would have included assist for the newer CPUs. Certain, MS-DOS hadn’t modified when the ‘386 and ‘486 got here round, and even the Pentium. However what if it had? To take benefit, DOS would have supported multitasking. And 32-bit. Because the Web turned a factor, you’d add community assist in there too.
In some unspecified time in the future, you’d want to vary the reminiscence mannequin. DOS is a straightforward working system, and as you launch a brand new software, that program will get complete management of the system assets. If you happen to assume a multitasking DOS, you’d need to replace it so every course of is remoted.
As a result of the reminiscence mannequin and different core DOS assumptions want to vary a lot, you lose backward compatibility. Older purposes written for DOS 6 would not run on the brand new DOS, so that you’d need to create a “sandbox” setting to run legacy DOS purposes.
I may go on, however you get the concept.
However we have seen a multitasking command line PC working system with built-in networking and new EXE mannequin, with a sandbox to run legacy DOS purposes. That already exists. It is Linux, booting into runlevel 3, with one thing like DOSEMU or DOSBox to run DOS purposes. We have already got that.
I made a decision that re-inventing “FreeDOS” to be one other “Linux” simply did not make sense. Do not make FreeDOS into one thing it is not. FreeDOS is DOS. Let’s preserve FreeDOS as DOS. And which means all of the legacy stuff that goes with it.
That leaves userspace. We will do quite a bit by increasing the command line by way of enhanced utilities. FreeDOS consists of compilers and improvement instruments (C compilers, Assemblers, BASIC, … even perl), editors, networking, and a ton of cool utilities and energy instruments.
We’ve got a bunch of Unix-like utilities in FreeDOS, which makes it simpler for Linux customers to make use of FreeDOS. There are variations of cal, du, bc, sed, grep, head, much less, nroff, tail, tee, contact, and different acquainted utilities. Within the upcoming FreeDOS 1.3 distribution, we’re planning to separate these Unix-like utilities into their very own package deal group so they’re simpler to seek out and set up.
What Subsequent
by markmay
What do you see subsequent because the route for FreeDOS? Something particular you’d actually like so as to add?
JH:
Over time, we’ll proceed so as to add to the FreeDOS command line. That is a given.
Whereas I do not need FreeDOS to grow to be a “mini-Linux,” I do like the concept of together with as many Unix-like utilities as make sense. There was once a challenge known as GNUish that ported GNU utilities and different Unix utilities to DOS. The GNUish challenge stopped a while in the past, however I might like to see extra of that. Perhaps that is a superb challenge for brand spanking new builders?
One other group of builders has began work on a brand new DOS kernel challenge known as the NightDOS kernel. Their objective is to put in writing “a 32-bit drop-in alternative” for the FreeDOS kernel, together with assist for legacy 16-bit DOS purposes. I am keeping track of them. In the event that they reach a DOS kernel that may natively run 16-bit DOS purposes, whereas including their different options, perhaps we’ll embody NightDOS as an non-compulsory kernel in FreeDOS.
NightDOS remains to be very early in improvement. They’ve an extended, lengthy street forward of them. They do not assist FAT but, and their roadmap says NightDOS will not run EXE or COM packages till the top of 2020. So there is a methods to go but. However that might be neat.
I might additionally prefer to see FreeDOS run on UEFI {hardware}, with no BIOS. I think about this would want so as to add some sort of UEFI bootstrap BIOS emulator, maybe carried out as an IPL. That one is hard, and could also be of restricted worth anyway. See subsequent query:
What occurs to FreeDOS when BIOS is useless?
by Nameless Coward
DOS depends on code constructed into the BIOS, and BIOS is beginning to grow to be unavailable in newer {hardware}. I seen the final motherboard I purchased was UEFI solely. The FreeDOS web site says that FreeDOS can’t emulate BIOS.
So what’s the long run plan for FreeDOS? Will FreeDOS die, or will it solely run on older techniques that assist BIOS, or inside a VM?
JH:
Sure, BIOS is on the way in which out, to get replaced by UEFI.
Like every DOS, FreeDOS requires an Intel x86 CPU and a BIOS to offer fundamental runtime companies. FreeDOS depends on the BIOS as a core assumption. It is not one thing to be simply changed.
So that implies FreeDOS will not be capable to boot on naked steel new PC {hardware} in a number of years. As you’ve got seen, some PCs already do not assist BIOS, so these computer systems cannot boot FreeDOS as their working system.
However BIOS is not the one limiting issue for newer PCs, anyway. Trendy PCs have extra reminiscence and disk than a 16-bit working system like FreeDOS can deal with. And FreeDOS cannot leverage a number of cores or multitasking, aside from single-CPU pseudo-multitasking by way of TSRs.
For a very long time, we have seen the development the place extra persons are operating FreeDOS in a PC emulator, whereas they run a very completely different host working system. Linux operating QEMU, or Home windows operating VirtualBox. And FreeDOS runs very properly there. FreeDOS does not require a lot overhead, so that you need not allocate a variety of assets to the digital machine besides FreeDOS in your PC emulator. Boot FreeDOS and run DOS purposes in a PC emulator, alongside your on a regular basis purposes.
Trying forward, I believe most individuals will boot FreeDOS in a PC emulator. And that is already occurring. Even I do not run FreeDOS as my native working system. I run Linux (Fedora 30 with GNOME, if you happen to’re curious) and boot FreeDOS utilizing QEMU.
Languages
by AmiMoJo
It appears to be like like FreeDOS is generally C and assembler. Have you ever been tempted to maneuver to C++, or every other language?
JH:
In a phrase, no. Writing an working system like FreeDOS is finest performed with as little overhead as potential. C permits you to get fairly near the {hardware}, and Meeting is correct there. Transferring to a higher-level language would not be a superb match.
Greatest use of FreeDOS
by iampiti
What’s the very best use you’ve got seen of FreeDOS (most shocking, most helpful…)?
JH:
Somebody made a pinball machine that ran FreeDOS to maintain rating and show a graphical again board. I at all times thought that was neat!
This began as a interest challenge, however turned a business enterprise. I am undecided on the small print, however I would guess the rating targets on the board (drop targets, bumpers, and many others) have been most likely producing keyboard occasions (like A,S,D,F and H,J,Okay,L for drop targets, Q,W,E for bumpers, R,T,Y for gates, and so forth). I think about sure different components of the machine have been purely electrical (just like the flippers) and different components have been hybrid (bumpers routinely kick the ball away, but in addition ship a keyboard occasion).
With these assumptions, you could possibly write a DOS software that listened for keyboard inputs, and replace the board appropriately.
I don’t know what occurred to that challenge. I would love to seek out out. I hope it went properly.
Microsoft
by Nameless Coward
How has Microsoft responded to your challenge through the years?
JH:
Microsoft has not commented on FreeDOS.
If there are any Microsoft workers on the market who labored on MS-DOS and have been conscious of FreeDOS, I would love to purchase you a beer someday. 🙂
Perhaps FreeDOS is what nudged Microsoft to lastly launch early variations of MS-DOS below an open supply license? In that case, that might be the very best response from Microsoft.
If you happen to aren’t acquainted with this: In 2014, Microsoft launched the supply code to MS-DOS 1.1 and a couple of.0 by way of the Laptop Historical past Museum. This was below a “look however don’t contact” license. Actually, we requested that anybody who studied this MS-DOS supply code not contribute to FreeDOS afterwards.
In 2018, Microsoft launched the supply code for MS-DOS 1.25 and a couple of.0 to GitHub, utilizing the MIT (also referred to as “Expat”) license. The MIT/Expat license is suitable with the GNU GPL. It is a main step ahead for Microsoft!
On a sensible aspect, although, this does not actually assist FreeDOS. Once we created FreeDOS, we used the Ralf Brown Interrupt Listing as our reference for MS-DOS features and behaviors. And Pat Villani’s kernel began on a non-Intel platform, anyway. FreeDOS makes use of a very completely different inner construction. You’ll be able to’t simply forklift the code from the MS-DOS launch into FreeDOS and anticipate it to work.
There’s additionally the matter that MS-DOS 1.25 and a couple of.0 are very previous. For instance, MS-DOS 2.0 was the primary model to assist subdirectories. These previous variations of MS-DOS didn’t but assist extra superior options like networking and CD-ROM assist. These options have been customary in FreeDOS for a very long time.
who’re the large customers?
by drinkypoo
Who’re essentially the most quite a few customers of FreeDOS? Is it avid gamers, or industrial management, or another group I have never imagined?
JH:
As of late, most individuals set up FreeDOS to do 3 or 4 issues:
1. To play basic DOS video games.
That is most likely how FreeDOS will get used more often than not. There are a variety of nice DOS video games. Simply because a sport is previous doesn’t suggest it stopped being enjoyable. I nonetheless play DOOM now and again. My favourite DOS sport might be TIE Fighter from LucasArts. I purchased a duplicate from GOG a number of years in the past, and I prefer to play that. The graphics do not evaluate to trendy video games, however I actually take pleasure in piloting a TIE to shoot down insurgent scum.
2. To run legacy software program.
This occurs extra typically than you’d most likely suppose. Once I was campus CIO for the College of Minnesota Morris, one in every of our school got here in with an issue. She had uncovered floppies with analysis information that she wished to entry. The information information have been written from a now-defunct DOS software, and we could not learn the information in Excel or LibreOffice. So we put in FreeDOS on a spare PC, downloaded a duplicate of the unique DOS software, and exported the information right into a plain textual content file.
Extra lately, after I was CIO for Ramsey County, Minn., we lastly retired an software that had been operating on a DOS laptop. That was operating MS-DOS, although. This was a few yr in the past, in 2018.
Two extra examples: You could know that George R. R. Martin writes the Sport of Thrones ebook sequence utilizing a DOS laptop. There’s additionally an F1 restore store that makes use of a DOS laptop computer to do automobile diagnostics. Each examples are most likely operating MS-DOS as a substitute of FreeDOS, however I prefer to suppose FreeDOS may try this too.
3. To assist embedded techniques.
Some embedded techniques run on DOS, though trendy embedded techniques might as a substitute run on Linux. If you happen to assist an older embedded system, you is perhaps operating DOS. And FreeDOS can slot in very properly. One developer joined us for some time as a result of they supported an embedded system that ran on DOS, and so they have been shifting to FreeDOS. We nonetheless hear from individuals operating DOS embedded techniques, however it’s turning into extra uncommon.
4. To replace your BIOS.
I most likely should not embody this within the listing, as a result of I do not know that many individuals set up FreeDOS to do BIOS updates. However there are nonetheless motherboard producers that launch BIOS updates as DOS purposes. You need not set up FreeDOS to do that. I believe most individuals simply boot FreeDOS from a USB fob drive, and run the installer from there.
Lengthy Filename assist
by UnknownSoldier
How exhausting was it so as to add assist for Lengthy Filenames (DOSLFN) and what have been the teachings learnt?
JH:
FreeDOS makes use of LFNDOS or DOSLFN (you should use both) to assist lengthy filenames. In order that’s straightforward.
For instance, the package deal description for DOSLFN says “Offers the Home windows 95 lengthy filename API to DOS packages. Any DOS program which might use lengthy filenames, for instance DOS 7 Command.com, edit.com and all DJGPP packages, can load and save utilizing them with LFNDOS. Designed for Win95 customers utilizing DOS-mode, though it really works below previous DOS variations too.”
Traditional third social gathering instruments – abandonware?
by blind biker
Have you ever tried to contact the businesses that maintain the rights to basic DOS instruments like Norton Commander, Norton Disk Physician, PC Instruments, DiskDupe, Laplink and many others? Perhaps some can be prepared to launch their previous DOS software program as a goodwill gesture?
JH:
I’ve! However there’s not a lot to report right here. Plenty of these firms haven’t got a lot curiosity within the older DOS merchandise, and so they view releasing the supply code as opening them as much as threat. For instance, most of the older merchandise you point out might use code licensed from third events. They might not have the rights to launch that supply code. Asking them to launch the supply code to those older packages is principally asking them to do a code overview of a product they are going to by no means promote, so they do not do it.
However some firms have discovered a center floor. If they will not launch the previous software program as free/libre software program, they a minimum of launch it as free/free of charge software program. My favourite instance is the As-Straightforward-As spreadsheet from TRIUS Inc. They launched the final DOS model as free/free of charge software program and posted the activation code on their discussion board:
“As of 03/11/2004, As-Straightforward-As for DOS was discontinued. Copies of this system can nonetheless be downloaded and FREE full licenses may be put in utilizing the data under. TRIUS not helps or solutions questions relating to this program, however different customers visiting these boards would possibly. Listed below are the hyperlinks for this system and the consumer’s guide. [Old As-Easy-As v5.7 for DOS program] [Users Manual]”
I believe it could be nice for extra firms to do the identical.
If anybody studying this works at an organization with a DOS product, I would love to listen to from you! My e-mail deal with is on my private web page.
Motivation
by Camembert
What retains you motivated to work for thus lengthy on this challenge whereas there are such a lot of fascinating newer applied sciences to work on as a substitute?
JH:
I would get uninterested in FreeDOS if it have been my full-time job. However FreeDOS is a interest for me. Some individuals play golf, I work on FreeDOS.
However FreeDOS shouldn’t be the one factor I am engaged on, or have labored on. Since 1993, I’ve written or contributed to dozens of open supply software program initiatives. FreeDOS is simply the one I am finest identified for. I generally joke that of all of the issues I’ve performed, FreeDOS shall be what I am remembered for. Not a nasty legacy, although. 🙂
I additionally do quite a bit with usability testing in open supply software program. That is an space that wants extra consideration. Individuals assume that “usability” is difficult so they do not do it. However actually, it does not take a variety of effort or time to run a number of usability checks and determine how actual individuals use your software program, so you may make it simpler to make use of.
And apart from my open supply software program work, I simply began a consulting firm. IT Mentor Group LLC companions with IT Leaders to assist in strategic planning and organizational improvement. I’m excited for this new alternative. It is not on daily basis that you just begin your personal enterprise! Beginning an organization takes a variety of time, and which means much less time for different issues.
However I nonetheless discover time to work on FreeDOS as a result of I simply love doing it.
